tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10166090.post9050422352515938520..comments2024-02-17T07:59:18.705-08:00Comments on Grad Student Madness: Plato: MenoRufushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17762279210783841414noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10166090.post-20164773659462984092009-05-13T08:10:00.000-07:002009-05-13T08:10:00.000-07:00Also, I think fate is more intangible. At least, i...Also, I think fate is more intangible. At least, it is to me. It seems like it's easier to bargain with God than it is with the gods. The Iliad makes it sound like the gods do with us as they please. As for the heroes, their virtues are almost canceled out by their flaws.Rufusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10166090.post-4297687257651960212009-05-11T21:08:00.000-07:002009-05-11T21:08:00.000-07:00You're welcome. And also, while its not that commo...You're welcome. And also, while its not that common in everybody, there is a societal element that holds virtues up as something to aim for. So in that regard, society forms a kind of bonding, a cohesiveness that encourages all of us to aim for those higher states of what we call morals and ethics, and rewards us when we do so while enacting reprisals when we act against those established virtues. <br /><br />That's what we have our "heroes" for. They are ideals to aspire to, but at the same time, note how in the ancient myths, all of the heroes were tragically flawed, and suffered greatly for their shortcomings. They actually provided warnings of the consequences of pursuing base behavior, and at the same time provided inspiration for their good deeds. They did them to atone for their past bad actions, and otherwise did not benefit from them. Yet, in some cases they were deified. That is a pretty strong message in its own right, that one should seek guidance from a deity that knew from sad experience what a person might be going through.<br /><br />It's also worth pointing out that at the time these dialogues were going on, no one had any kind of clue, consciously at least, as to the idea of any kind of evolutionary struggles and advances of the species, how mankind and other life forms adapt and adjust over millennia. They just understood the natural world around them to a very limited extend, and explained them in those ways. <br /><br />So to them the idea of morals, virtues, and ethics was something that was more intangible and unexplainable than lightning, earthquakes, the seasons, etc., all things of the natural world which they could at least see and understand to a point their power and their effects. So to their way of thinking, if some red-bearded guy in the sky was tossing lightning around because he was having a bad weekend or whatever, the explanation of more mysterious and unknowable matters would probably follow a similar route.SecondComingOfBasthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03336586430250490679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10166090.post-68933002891042064142009-05-11T20:40:00.000-07:002009-05-11T20:40:00.000-07:00Well, I'm not sure it's that common! But I do thin...Well, I'm not sure it's that common! But I do think you've hit on something here. Virtues might well be akin to just what works in our experience. Maybe it's something like a set of habits that aren't necessarily even conscious- something we learn by <I>practice</I>.<br /><br />It's often struck me too that, aside from any sort of belief in a deity, most of the things that are forbidden in religious creeds are actually psychologically damaging. There are actually very practical reasons to avoid things like sloth, or lying, or wrath- they're just not good for one's mental health.<br /><br />It could be that we learn what is good for our state of mind through experience and explain it to ourselves through moral codes. We know without having to be told, or being born knowing. <br /><br />I think this is an interesting idea. Thanks.Rufushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17762279210783841414noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10166090.post-11453348904417186212009-05-11T10:01:00.000-07:002009-05-11T10:01:00.000-07:00Couldn't virtue be defined as a kind of common sen...Couldn't virtue be defined as a kind of common sense, and this learned through both example and experience? Take the example given of courage, for example, being a state between cowardice and foolhardiness. That would seem to be a great example of a state of mind that one could arrive at through experience, and/or through training.<br /><br />Maybe it's a kind of adaptation technique. People latch onto what seems to work, and there are certain things that are just universal. After so long, while its not set in stone (the brave man can always under the right circumstances become a quivering jellyfish, or perhaps through unreasoned anger become and act vengefully or wrathfully to a foolhardy extent), and can gravitate from one end to the other, it might well be seen as acquired behavior shared in common as a means to insure survival and the flourishing of the species of man in a world where under many natural conditions he is at a distinct disadvantage otherwise.<br /><br />It becomes both an individual characteristic, and social in nature, something to be aimed at and encouraged, but unfortunately possessed in abundance by few.SecondComingOfBasthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03336586430250490679noreply@blogger.com